Lloyd Johnson: Founder of the Minority Corporate Counsel Association

Lloyd Johnson, CEO of Chief Legal Executive and founder of the Minority Corporate Counsel Association (MCCA), joins John Iino to share his history, his personal stories, and advice from his mentors over the years. Lloyd, who toured the world as a member of the NCAA champion USC track and field teams in 1976 and 1978, was able to bring a global perspective to his work. “For the most part, we look at prism through the conflict of race. However ... when you look at conflict through the prism of power, history, and information, all of a sudden things take on a completely different meaning. [The MCCA] is a clearing house of information. It provides multiple forums ... and that's an opportunity for people to focus on what is common, versus what is different.” 

Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.

John: Welcome to the podcast. We're honored to have Lloyd Johnson here. I'm really privileged to call Lloyd a friend. He is a true pioneer in our profession and thought it'd be great to have more of you learn all about Lloyd and all the amazing things he did and his perspectives. So lemme just give a quick introduction Lloyd, if I may. You have had an amazing career already. I know you were the first black attorney to work in the legal department at HP. Many of you may know that Lloyd was the first executive director and the co-founder of the MCCA, the Minority Corporate Counsel Association. You may not know that the LMJ Scholarship, which is of the MCCA is named after the famous Lloyd M Johnson. He was the first person to do a nationwide law department diversity best practices survey. He also was founded, I think he founded Lloyd, the first national magazine, focused on diversity in law departments and law firms also did the first surveys of women and attorneys of color as a GC of a Fortune 500 company. So just amazing, amazing things. Lloyd, welcome to the podcast.

Lloyd: Thank you. Thank you very much, John. And I would also call you a friend in terms of our passion for diversity, our alma mater, university of Southern California, there are so many things that we have in common.

John: Fight on. That's awesome. So let's get started. The title of our podcast is Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. I really like to hear about people and what makes them unique. So if you can tell us a little bit about your history, tell us your story,

Lloyd: Would love to share. First and foremost, born and raised in Northern California in an area that is about an hour north of San Francisco. Back then it was called the Hicks. Now it's called Wine Country. And specifically a little town called Santa Rosa. And it was ideal for so many ways. It was 99% white and that my family was really forced to learn how to work with others in just about every facet of our life. And the final thing that I would say is the bad things and the challenges that my family faced for the most part, a lot of that was done by the time that I was five or six. So I got the benefits of all of the good things and really didn't have to bear witness to some of the really difficult challenges that sometimes happens when you're first on the topic of race at that time in our country's history.

John: So back then in Santa Rosa, you're one of the few black families in the county then, is that right?

Lloyd: Absolutely. And it was a time that people just did not warm up to the idea of having blacks move into their neighborhoods. And there were certainly some challenges, and unfortunately there are a number of different times that people in my family had businesses burned down and that the only work that we could get was as janitors. So my grandfather said, well, if that's the work that they'll give us, then that's the work that we'll do. He was always comfortable with the fact of being janitors is what we do, it's not who we are. He takes great pride in the fact that of his nine kids, nine of them graduated from college.

John: That's amazing. That's great. I love that saying, it is what we do, not who we are growing up or back then. What was a big influencer in your life? Obviously it sounds like your grandfather as one, but what other influences were part of your life?

Lloyd: John, I've been very fortunate. I did not know this at the time, but one of the things that you and I share in common is our passion and our work around being an executive coach. And one of the things that I've noticed about some of my clients that it really reflects what growing up in Santa Rosa for me was, is the notion of a champion Mac. And there are some people who no matter where they go, are able to bring others to them that are willing to be career accelerants. So whether I was in the sixth grade high school, literally at every point in my career, I've been fortunate enough to have people who have extraordinary insights, extraordinary spheres of influence, share that with me. And in particular, one of the unfortunate incidents that happened in my family, and I think this was right around 1963 or 1964, one of my uncles being a hardheaded knucklehead in chief that he was, even though he had already broken his ankle playing football with his ankle in a cast, was playing flag football, re broke his ankle, went into the hospital to have the bone reset, the anesthesiologist blew it, and he went into a coma and within 30 days he was dead. And unfortunately there were no doctors who would testify about what happened. And in addition to that, there were no attorneys in Santa Rosa and Sonoma County who would take the case. So my family had to reach out to attorneys in Oakland and San Francisco and to get someone to represent them. And at that point, my grandfather said that out of all of these kids and all of these grandkids, somebody needs to be an attorney and Lloyd, that should be you. And then he provided access to just incredible, incredible mentors to help me do what I needed to do and be focused as I should have been at USC undergrad and then law school and beyond. So he really did demonstrate that in every calamity there's opportunity. The more you focus on the opportunity, the more people will want to have you in the room when big decisions are being made.

John: Yeah, no, I love that you talked about our shared passion for coaching. It's one of the things that we learn in our coaching is that it's not black and white, it's not right and wrong, it's not win or lose. It's finding the opportunities and finding a win-wins at a situation. And even such a tragic event like you said, just really happy to hear that one of the inspirations for you of how you became a lawyer. Talk a little bit about how you got to USC. You were born and raised in Santa Rosa, but you ended up being a Trojan. How did that happen?

Lloyd: It was more luck than talent at the time. It was more fun to hang out at the two of the private high schools that happened to be separate schools for boys and girls. And my cousin, who was actually very talented athlete in the sport of track was being recruited by the University of Southern California. So literally I was at his high school more so to hang out with him and kind of watch the cheerleaders practice the same time the track team practice. And I was there for the entertainment more so than the sport. And as it turned out, there was a recruit from USC who said, well first of all, you run your mouth too much. Second, you're running the wrong event. However, you have a great deal of talent and if you change your event, you have the potential to do great things and I'm going to have some people from USC come up and talk to you.

John: Wow. So I know you ran track at USC.

Lloyd: Yes, I did. And at that point that they started looking at me, I had a bit of success but not enough. So they did not offer me a scholarship, at least initially. So even though I was accepted at USC, UCLA, UC Santa Barbara as well as Cal and a number of other schools, I had made up my mind that I was going to go to USC and that I was going to prove the coaches wrong. So I started out as a walk-on and ended up being team captain all American ranked eighth in the United States and 20th in the world. And most importantly in the summer of 1977, was able to spend about three months traveling around in Europe. And I learned more about diversity and multiculturalism and that summer than anything else that I've ever done in many of the ideas that ultimately became the Minority Corporate Council Association. And diversity in the bar really goes back to spending time in Poland and Ireland.

John: Yeah, tell us more about that.

Lloyd: So one of the great things about being a walk-on is that you never know if you're going to get to compete or be on the team the next week. And so I had a sense of appreciation for every meet that I went to and that for those who haven't spent time around athletes, one of the things that most people don't realize is that you have incredible access to all kinds of people. And over in Europe, I decided that for every city that we went to and we went to 50, I guess 35 cities in 10 weeks. So very rarely were you in the city more than two days. And if we were in the city more than three days, I cut a deal with the meat promoter that he would allow me to have dinner in the home of one of the locals. And it was my preference to dine with locals who didn't know anything about track because over there there's enough pressure around running. And the last thing that I wanted to do in my spare time was talk about running and spent time with one family in Big Ghost Poland. And the woman of the house, after she heard a little bit about my background, said, oh, well what are your parents doing? How do they make so much money? And I'm saying through her daughter, the interpreter, excuse me, what makes you think that my parents have a lot of money? She says, well, but you went to school, you've been going to school all your life. And I said, well no, you don't understand in the United States everybody can go to school now the quality of the education, that's a different point. So she said, you mean to tell me? So she said, well then where does all the money come from? And I said, well, taxes and where do the taxes come from? People's wages. So you have so many people in your country working, you can pay for things like education. And that was a real eyeopener for me, how some of the most things we take for granted. And that's not the case in other parts of the world.

John: So you said some of the things you learned while in Europe led to things like forming the MCCA and I can see the title of this podcast from Poland to the MCCA. What's the connection between what you learned over there and what you've played forward over here?

Lloyd: Well, if we could just make one pit stop to Belfast Ireland, and once again, this is in the summer of 1977 and I was 19, 20 years old at the time, and most 20 year olds felt that I had the world by the ankle, is that the more politically correct way to say it? And we were leaving Heathrow Airport in London on our way to Belfast, and it's the only time in my life that I ever kept a journal. You spent a lot of time on planes and trains and in hotels, and I would just write down whatever was going on. And so I was about to board the plane and I had just a regular big ball pen and a notepad and the security took away my pen. And I said, oh, why is that? And they said, you can kill somebody with a pen. Oh, well, I mean I guess now that you think about it, can, that was the beginning of five days in Belfast, Ireland. And those conversations, especially those away from the track, taught me how to look at conflict through a completely different prism as Americans. For the most part, we look at prism through the conflict of race. However, when you step away from that and you look at conflict through the prism of power and history and information, all of a sudden things take on a completely different meaning. And so if you look at what MCCA is more so than anything else is it is a clearinghouse of information. It provides multiple forums such as dinners, webinars, and other events. And that's an opportunity for people to focus on what is common versus what is different.

John: I think a lot of times we focus so much about diversity, we focus on our differences and emphasizing our differences and showing up as our authentic selves. But at the same time, the more we get to know each other, the more we find we have what in common. And if there's secret sauce in terms of how we're going to really achieve this diversity mission is finding also not only accentuating our differences, but also finding areas of commonality and understanding that we all share some of the same passions and have the same dreams and desires and goals and then just linking people up together.

Lloyd: John, if I could build on that just a bit. Back in the late eighties had a conversation with a gentleman who was the general counsel at one of the big banks here in California at the time. His name was Jimmy. And there aren't a lot of people in California who were born Jimmy, that we call Jimmy. And that if there was a picture in Wikipedia on what a air quote redneck looked like, it was Jimmy and he was from the south and had a bit of a draw. And he and I had a conversation that some could argue gets to the crux of what diversity and multiculturalism can be. And he says, Lloyd, I'll be honest with you, that coming from the south, living in Orange County and this whole California thing, I don't get it. I tell you what can we make some kind of pact? So if in a meeting or otherwise I say something that you or others find offensive that you'll call me on it, you'll pull me aside and let me see what you see. And fundamentally, if we can do that on a one-on-one basis or in groups of many, the opportunities to have meaningful dialogues to focus on as you pointed out, what we share in common versus how we're different than we can make more sustainable progress on this particular topic.

John: What a great concept of being able to just have these one-on-one conversations. A big part of what we're trying to achieve with the podcast is just have people hear the one-on conversations and learn more about people and more about each other. So as you think about your background, what is you'd like people to know about you or what would be some of the lessons that you want people to know from your stories?

Lloyd: Well, so John, there are some people like yourselves, just wherever they've gone, there's been academic excellence and there were always at the top of the curve. Me, not so much. I did well and have always done well in terms of what goes on the classroom. However, standardized testing has never been my strength. So I take great pride in the fact that I was able to get into Hastings primarily because of the special admissions program. And that one of my first mentors said, look, Lloyd, you have taken out a loan. There are many, many people here who have been putting deposits in the bank of life and in the Bank of Diversity. And over the course of your career, you owe it to all of those that preceded you and all of those who follow you to back. And John, I feel extraordinarily blessed that wherever I have gone, I've been able to one, make an impact. And in addition to that, I've been able to create an infrastructure and opportunities for others. So I'd like to think that whereas I started out with a loan, I've been able to work with really, really smart, very well connected people and together we've created things that allow others to take out microloan so that they can grow and they can spread the wealth and the word.

John: Thank you so much. Thank you for what you do. It's just if everyone played the example of what you just said, the loan that you got to be able to pay back that loan, just think of what a great world we'd all have. So Lloyd, as you think about all the things that you've done, and I mentioned a lot of it at the top of this podcast, but in terms of all the accomplishments and really the impact, what stands out to you in the course of your career?

Lloyd: About 10, it was always my dream as it relates to the Minority Corporate Council Association to have it be an organization that was greater upon my departure than my presence. And with each successive executive director and or CEO, they have taken the organization to another level. Right after I transitioned from being the executive director, I was the chair of the board of directors for four years. And at the end of that tenure they said, oh, well Lord, we have some good news. The good news is we're going to create a scholarship in your name. The challenge is you're our biggest fundraiser, so you have to go out and raise money for it. And one of the things that I said is, one, thank you. And secondly, one of the things that is really important to me is that the scholarship be is expansive as possible in terms of who the beneficiaries of it can be. So fast forward from 2004 to about 2014 or 2015, I'm at an MCCA dinner and a gentleman comes up to me and he looks like ZZ Top. One, he was white. Secondly, he had a pretty long orange beard, which is relatively uncharacteristic for those of you if you've ever been to an MCCA dinner. And he said, Lloyd, I want to say thank you to you. You have changed my life and my family's life through this organization and this scholarship. And John, the short answer is to have created something that can change the lives of others in ways that far exceed any initial vision is something that is just of extraordinary importance to me and my family. And in the remaining time that I have on this planet, I hope that I can continue to do things that create microloan opportunities so that others can learn and grow in a way and at a time that works for them.

John: That's just fantastic. And talk about your legacy living on just through all those efforts, the scholarship and people that receive the scholarship. I always implore folks that benefit from these to make sure that they're giving back and playing it forward. And so many people do. They could be great mentors, they could fund their own scholarships or all the kind of things that we all hope and pray that people do. Thinking about mentors, a little bit about some of your mentors, whether growing up or even now.

Lloyd: Well, my first mentor was my grandfather who moved to California with nothing other than the car that he was driving. And when Sonoma County celebrated its bicentennial, there were 100 people that they acknowledged. The founder of Wells Fargo, Henry Trione, Charles Schultz are some of the names that people would recognize. And if you go to the center of our town, there's a picture of my grandfather there at his funeral. He had somebody from the California Supreme Court, the California Court of Appeals as well as the local court and that he had respect across the community, across the county. And he was able to do that because he was an incredible listener and he knew how to get people to see in themselves something greater than they otherwise would than having that conversation or that exposure with him. It's number one.

John: What's your grandfather's name? I'd love to be able to go up to Santa Rosa and see his picture there.

Lloyd: Gilbert Gray, right on Santa Rosa Avenue. It's where the press Democrat is located, and if you're going south to north, the building is on the left and there's a huge mural that's probably 200 feet by 200 feet and he'll be easy to find because he's the only person who is dark.

John: That's wonderful.

Lloyd: And then Vernon Jordan. Vernon Jordan was one of the people who was behind the scenes and sometimes in front of the scenes in the early development of the Minority Corporate Council Association. Then finally one of the five founding partners of Weil Gotshal, a man whose name is Ira Millstein. There's probably very few people who had as much to do with the success of MCCA and Mr. Millstein was absolutely incredible. He said that, Lloyd, if you ever put my name down on anything and talk about what I've done for the organization, you will find that a lot of people will stop returning your calls I'm doing for you what I can because I should and I don't need to get credit from others. And to me, somebody having that extraordinary success, the spheres of influence and the humility to be able to say, I'm going to do what I do and I want it to kept quiet. I've really tried to model myself after Mr. Millstein.

John: Well, what a great, great, great story as you think going forward and how we really push forward our goals around inclusion, diversity. What are some of your thoughts or secrets around making an impact with diversity inclusion?

Lloyd: So for those of you out in Radioland, you may not know this, but John is somewhere in Southern California and I am in the Reed Smith office in San Francisco. And it's a full circle moment for me because one of the first and most significant programs that I've done in the last 30 years started here. And that was through my working with Kit Chaskin and that program focused on leadership development for aspiring general counsel. In my view, the last mile and the most important mile as it relates in advancing diversity is highly focused, well done programs around talent development.

John: That's amazing. Lloyd, you're doing so much. You talk a lot about the MCCA and founding that and all the great things it's done since then. Tell us a little bit about some of your other projects that you're working on right now.

Lloyd: At the heart of all of the things that I'm doing right now is the notion of peer-to-peer networks. And I'll give you an example of three. One is there's a group of 25 African-American men who are general counsel in Fortune 500 companies. They have asked me to bring them together so that they can with more efficiency and more effectiveness, serve their clients and their boards doing something very similar for a group of African-American women general counsel. And then finally, and once again, one of our biggest sponsors is Reed Smith, have started in its second year a peer-to-peer network of women who are focused on becoming general counsel. In the event that was just concluded on February the second, we had 106 women from around the country. 84% of those women are direct reports to the general counsel. 82% manage others. And finally, and most importantly, 50% of those women are recognized by their companies as being high potential. So the opportunity of being able to bring really smart and focused people together so that they can learn from each other kind of gets to the notion of if we want to have impact, let's be intentional about whether or not it's going to be retail, which is one-to-one, whether it's going to be wholesale, which is one to many, or are we going to work together across lines of color in-house counsel, outside counsel and other ostensibly meaningless divisions and say, what can we do that can create something that is scalable, that is sustainable, that will have the impact on the widest number of people?

John: That's great. Retail, wholesale and scalable. What a model for success. And I've heard great things about the programs. You are just such a visionary in putting these things together and I appreciate the plug for Reed Smith too. I appreciate that. So tell us a little bit on how we get in touch with all your programming.

Lloyd: It is very simple. www.chieflegalexec.com, we'd like to think that we are bringing together industry visionaries, bringing together the next generation and the next generation defined as those who are going to be in the seats of power within the next two to three years, not the next five to 10. Because at 63, I want to see things come to fruition before I'm 66, not before I'm 76.

John: We need to continue to accelerate. I feel that we've made some great steps in the last say three years. We saw back what, 10, 15 years ago the call to action, and although there was action, did the progress really happen? And it seems that right now we're seeing more and more progress. So the hope is that, like you say, by the time you're 66, we'll see even greater things. But you've left. Your legacy is amazing. The seeds you're planting are all bearing fruit, and they'll grow into mighty trees going forward. So Lloyd Johnson, it's just been a privilege to spend time with you every time we sit down. It's just an honor and just always amazed by all the things that you're touching and accomplishing. So it's just happy that the rest of the world can learn more, or at least in our little world could learn more about all the great things you do. So thank you for coming in and sharing.

Lloyd: Thank you for the opportunity and fight on.

John: Fight on. There you go.

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. Available on PodBean, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and reedsmith.com.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome.

All rights reserved.

Transcript is auto-generated.