Rebecca Berger: Leading with curiosity

In this episode, Rebecca Berger, law firm partner, TV host, and family law and domestic violence advocate, joins John Iino and Iveliz Crespo to share her journey to becoming an attorney. She discusses her experiences as a first-generation lawyer, and the importance of being curious, seeking out new information, asking questions, and looking beyond first impressions. Rebecca also shares how she uses her popular weekly program, Justice for All, to highlight the stories of other legal professionals and thought leaders.

Transcript: 

​​Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included. 

Iveliz: Welcome everyone to our podcast. This is Iveliz Crespo, your host. Uh I'm here with our co-host John Iino. Hi, John. 

John: Hi Iveliz. 

Iveliz: John Good to see you. So today we are in for a special treat. We are joined by Rebecca Berger, who is a partner, a family law practitioner, a domestic violence advocate and the host of Justice For All a TV segment that highlights the stories of attorneys in the local surrounding areas of New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Uh So welcome, Rebecca. We are so happy that you were able to join us today. 

Rebecca: Thank you for having me Iveliz and John. I'm so excited to be here. 

Iveliz: Well, you know, it's our first time we've had anyone who's a TV host. So thank you for blessing us with your presence and we hope that our podcast can compute. 

Rebecca: Well, it's the first time I'm doing a podcast. So it was, you know, we're equally in the same boat. 

John: And for our listeners, Iveliz has actually been a guest on Rebecca's Show Justice For All.

Rebecca: An amazing guest at that. 

John: So we all can tune into that and see Iveliz as a guest as opposed to a host. 

Iveliz: Well, you know, Rebecca, I know that I've sent you uh some of the listings for our other episodes and I've talked to you about our podcast and one of the things we like to do is focus on people's powerful personal stories. Now you spend your time between advocating for people's rights and also showcasing other people's stories on your TV show. But what I'd like to do is talk about you. I want to talk about your journey to being a champion, the champion that you are today. How did you get here? Why on earth would you pick the legal industry? So talk to us about that. 

Rebecca: So I didn't know that this was going to be the path that I was going to take. Interestingly enough when I was very young, my dad used to tell me I should be an attorney one day because I always had a point. Always. It would definitely wasn't my expectation. It wasn't something I was thinking it was ultimately going to do. My life took definitely a turn when I had my daughter when I was a teenager, so I was a teen mother. After having my daughter, I didn't have a ton of options. Um, my parents, you know, they felt that it was my responsibility and that I needed to take care of myself. So I had to apply for public assistance and ultimately applied for hud housing. So I went to a program called Reach, which was for single teen mothers under 21. So they wouldn't send you to college, but that they would send you to business school. So I chose what used to be Harris Business School, which is no longer there. It used to be on route 38 and I guess it's Cherry Hill. Um I think it's combined with another bigger school at this point. And just by chance, I chose the legal program and it was a nine month program. And while I was there, I had asked them if I could do an internship with an attorney because I had never worked for an attorney's office. And I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. And so they, there was somebody, a teacher there who ended up hooking me up with someone who with an attorney who ultimately became a judge. So this judge knew me when I was very, very young and I would see him once I eventually became an attorney and he's like, I don't mean to be patronizing, but I'm so proud of you. Because he's known me for so long.

At the same time, while I was at the school, they had called uh my firm that I ended up with after graduating, had called my school looking for somebody as a legal secretary and all of my teachers had recommended me. So right upon graduation, I had a job there at a law firm which pretty much I started off filing for the most part because I knew nothing. Um and also doing some secretarial work and that, so that was January. And in September, I put myself in college because I knew I wanted to complete my college degree. Um My daughter was my responsibility and I wanted to make sure she had the best life possible. So that began the journey of college which between business school and ultimately college. And then once I was continuing at this law firm, I continued to build myself in the law firm. I obtained my associate's degree as a paralegal and then continued on for my four year education at Rutgers because the first four years were at community college, I worked full time and went to school at night. So it took, I did it part time so I could pay for it as I went along. The next four years were at Rutgers finishing those two years. And while I was there, I decided I wanted to go to law school and I just wanted to be the person in the courtroom. So I then applied to law school and got in and I actually worked full time and went to law school full time because I was tired of going to school and I had a young daughter. So, obviously. So in total, it took me 12 years from, I started when she was six months old and graduated when she was 12. So she used to go to school with me. If I didn't have someone to watch her. She went to undergrad with me. She went to law school with me. Uh So it was a very long road. There was a lot of stuff in between, but definitely all good stuff. 

John: What an incredible journey, Rebecca and, and so inspiring. So for so many of us and it's just great to, great to hear where your triumphs and, and, and it's at the same time, you know, the challenges you overcame and, and took it all in stride. So we know that you're a former prosecutor. You also are a family law practitioner, litigator advocate against the family of domestic violence. So tell us about what this long journey you had and how had your own experiences such as being a single parent as a, as a teenager shaped your approach to the law and how you serve your clients. 

Rebecca: I would say the biggest thing that it shaped for me is no one would look at me and know my backstory. And I think that when I look at other people. I know the feeling of being judged. I've been in that position, people assuming they knew who I was or what I was about or knew anything about me and they just simply didn't. And at the end of the day, that's how I focus on people I meet. I, I try not to judge them because I want to meet you wherever you are in life. I never can tell you why you stayed or, you know, domestic violence relationships, why are you staying? I try not to judge them. You know, the reality is you're only staying until you're ready to leave. You're only in this situation because, you know, at the end of the day, this is where you are at this point in your life and you just never know when someone's ready to make a change. And no one can tell you why people are doing what they're doing and no one has a right to really say anything about that unless you've walked in their shoes. You know, why do you get to judge that? It makes absolutely no sense to me. And I know that feeling. So I think I focus on that feeling and it's important for me to champion for people who maybe aren't in the best place in their life. And when I graduated law school, I knew I wanted to be in the courtroom. I felt like first of all, it scared me because it scared me. I know I needed to do it. I knew I needed to do it. And the best place for me to learn was at the prosecutor's office, which was an amazing and amazing experience for me. I tried a number of cases. I've tried sex assaults murder cases. I handled a lot of domestic violence cases and it's just a different perspective. And, you know, ultimately family law was a natural transition for me because you're dealing with real people issues that really do affect people's lives. And that's important for me. 

Iveliz: You know, uh Rebecca, a few things that you said really resonate with me primarily, you know, I'm, I was raised by a single mother. And I often think to myself, people always ask the question, you know, how was that for you? And they always expect some like dramatic story and like struggles and trials and tribulations. And I'm always just there to say it was the best experience that I could have ever had. I learned what strength in womanhood was. I learned, you know, how to support a family. Um I saw right? Hard work and that created my work ethic. And so for me, I'm always, I have a soft spot in my heart for single moms, I have a soft spot in my heart for those stories because it resonates with me as my story, right? And, and you know, as a single parent, you get to teach your kid what it means, like to really embody strength to really embody perseverance and that, that's something that very much resonates with me. Um And I just want to say that because I think everyone's always like, how do you do it? Right.

Rebecca: And I will tell you when people ask me that question, the answer to it is, I have no idea. It was 18 hours a day every day for 12 years. I have no idea. It's just what my focus was. You know, for me, I didn't have to have time to go out and party and be crazy. I didn't care. My focus was her. You know, once you have a child, you have no right to be selfish anymore. You just simply don't. And I, I'm glad that I recognized that at such a young age. And for me, she was the biggest blessing. So one of the most amazing things and gifts that she's ever given me is for me, it was important for her to have a very normal childhood. So I had her in activities. She, you know, she was a dancer. So she did dance and in addition to dance, I had her try everything possible, softball, tennis, you know, whatever different sports there were in order for her to make sure like this is what you love. So when she got older, she, she didn't really know everything going on. She said to me, mom, I had the happiest childhood I had absolutely no idea what was going on when she went to school with me. She didn't think anything of it. She just thought it was an adventure and really, I just got off the phone with her father who said I'm not coming to pick her up. So I would have to take her to school and I would have to regroup and put her little backpack on and get her crayons out and, you know, making an adventure and she was so good. She was just great. She would sit there and tell me everything going on in class and I couldn't have asked for a better child. She was just amazing. And the funny thing is now she's an attorney. So my friends and I laugh because she's been to law school now twice because she went with me and now she went on her own. 

Iveliz: I love that. I really do. I think that's fantastic. And, you know, that's just, it just shows right. I say the same thing I grew up very poor and people laugh when I say I didn't even realize I was poor because you're just happy. Exactly. My mom worked really hard to make sure that we were insulated from a lot of that. And so I really, I really respect that and I was gonna ask you why family law. But I think you've already delved into that topic and it's very clear that this was something that you were meant to do. So, Rebecca, I know you've mentioned that um you know, family law was a natural fit, but tell us a little bit about your practice, right? And you know, how does that keep you fulfilled? Why family law, you are a litigator, right? You are a prosecutor, that kind of experience, you can take anywhere. Why family law? 

Rebecca: So for me at the prosecutor's office, I spent four years in the domestic violence unit. So I handled all different, any type of crime that involved a dating relationship or a marriage, that type of domestic violence relationship, I handled the case. So again, murder, sex, assault, it could be robbery, aggravated assault, whatever it was, I handled those type of cases. So I think my focus for me has always been and I think somewhere in the back of my mind was two things, one Children, the protection of Children and to the protection of people who can't protect themselves. And I think a lot of times you're dealing with people even in the divorce realm that they're so far in their emotions that they're not able to really focus on. What's the best interest. I always tell my clients in every initial meeting, my focus is gonna be on your kids first because I am a mother and the reality is kids do not get to make decisions, they do not get to make choices, adults do. So if you're acting badly, I'm gonna tell you that and I tell people not what they want to hear. I tell them what they need to hear. And sometimes that's not always the easiest, I'm very compassionate and empathetic. But at the same time, I'm gonna be honest with you because I don't think it helps somebody to lie to them. If you want someone to lie to you, you will find someone that to represent you who will do that. That will not be me though. I mean, in this field.

So it's been, this year is a total of 28 years because I stayed at my firm for the 12 years throughout school. I stayed there the entire time and I worked myself up from filing and legal secretary work to the paralegal and then actually managing the firm, I managed the firm by the time I left. So I was doing paralegal work and managing the firm. Um I designed all different systems for the office and actually some of them are still in effect today, you know, it was, I was a go getter. So I mean, in, in total, I've, it's a total of 28 years now that I've been in the legal field and 16 as an attorney. So for me, I understand all different aspects and I look at it very differently than maybe somebody else who may not have the background that I do. Um And what's important and I try not to get bogged down by silly things because quite frankly, I have a very different perspective of what's important. 

John: I love hearing that just from, you know, the classic, from the, the mail room to the boardroom and, you know, being a being, being originally a secretary and filing and to running the firm, that's just fantastic. And Rebecca, you, you mentioned like the 18 hour days, you know, how hard days can be and how hard, you know, it, it is uh to getting through that those moments and, and us as den I professionals, um sometimes the work we do is, you know, it's, it's challenging and I know working with the clients that you do, it's, it's really tough work. So I guess the question is, how do you kind of stay grounded? How do you persevere, you know, what keeps you going? I know you mentioned your daughter. But, you know, for all of us out there that have experienced some of the challenges you seem to have certainly managed through it like a few people. So we'd be really curious in terms of how you manage to stay grounded and keep going. 

Rebecca: So I think for me personally, I do things to try to keep myself mentally in a clear space. So, meditation, prayer, you know, exercise all of the things that you need to do to take care of yourself quite frankly, because I'm no good to anyone else if I'm not good to myself. And that's always gotta be the key for anyone. You have to love yourself first in order to be able to help others. So I think it's really important for as attorneys. Sometimes we're not always focused on taking care of ourselves. And I think it's incredibly important because if you don't, you can't help your clients, you're no good to your clients. If you haven't helped yourself and you're not good. 

John: I agree with that 100%. As our listeners know that I'm also a coach, a certified career life coach. And the program that I went through, shout out to my iPEC friends. Um it says that, you know, you have, it's, it's coaching from the inside out and you can't be a great coach unless you understand yourself first and understand, you know what it is that you raise awareness of, of yourself. And like you say, for us to be, you know, for people to be great attorneys, they have to be great people and, and work on themselves first. And um you're not going to be able to help anyone else if you're not helping yourself. So what great, great advice and really take that to heart. 

Rebecca: Well, I mean, hopefully people recognize that because I think the hard thing about attorneys is not everybody realizes we're just human. And I think that that's one of the most important reasons that I do Justice For All. My goal, for justice for all is speaking to other professionals. And I don't care as an attorney, what you're doing, I don't think that you need to be practicing law. I think there's so many different things you can do with a law degree. And for me, I'm naturally curious anyway. So I always want to hear about what everybody's doing. So I love talking to people and finding out what they're doing. But I also, one of my goals is to humanize attorneys. We're just people doing a job. I'm doing my job like you. So whether I am sweeping the floor or I'm in a court arguing a case. I'm just a person doing the job. I'm no more important and I'm no less important. I'm simply doing a job and, you know, you'll have litigants who are like that attorney. I'm just doing a job. That's it. But I think it's hard for people to recognize that. But I hopefully justice for all is able to give people that perspective of not only humanizing attorneys, but also educating people on different areas. 

John: I love the show Justice For All. It's for our listeners, it's a weekly program where Rebecca will have one on one discussions with legal professionals, other thought leaders, not just discussing, not only their career paths, but also, you know, niche areas of the law and as you say, Rebecca, humanizing attorneys. So what motivated you? I think you hit on a little bit of what motivated you to tell these stories, but maybe give our listeners a little bit of a flavor of some of the stories, you know, maybe your highlights from your work on uh justice for all, you know, that, that our listeners might be interested in. What were some of the, the, the great stories from that that came out? 

Rebecca: Well, I've spoken to a number of really interesting people and just really interesting stories of what people are doing evil is, was a very interesting story, hearing the story and the background and being involved in diversity and inclusion is an important area. For me, I think that that's very important. My daughter is biracial. So then she's had certain things that she's had to face in that particular arena. So for me, it's important to hear people, you know, who are dealing with that issue head on to kind of make waves in some of the things that people think are normal, which really are not normal. And people, the comments, the things that people make on a daily basis that they think is perfectly normal when it really is not normal, it's just rude and yet fail to understand that. But you know, to me, one of the things I also taught my daughter as a young girl is, there's no point in yelling and you know, getting in someone's face so to speak. Sometimes it's OK to just plant a seed, to get maybe someone to think differently. And the really the key is to self-confidence within so that you're not focused on that.

So I also think in my interview, some of the people I interview who would I want my daughter to speak to? What I think this person is really interesting. So, you know, all of the different areas in terms of I met, I interviewed a woman who does focus groups, which I thought was really interesting. It's a psychological perspective. I interviewed a gentleman who's an attorney who's really into meditation techniques and also EFT training. So tapping, you know, how to help attorneys, you know, deal with the things that they're going through. So things are not just on the regular spectrum of talking about law, so to speak, but the peripheral around law, I have had really interesting interviews with people who handle criminal cases or, and it's good for me because I like to hear that, hear a different perspective because I handle criminal cases. I've spoken to personal injury attorneys. I worked in a personal injury firm for those 12 years because it was a personal injury firm that I managed, you know, different family law practitioners and even different areas of law, elder elder abuse, which is also very interesting to me. There's just been so many different people that I've spoken to. It's hard for me to highlight just everything. But I find people to be interesting and fascinating just generally. 

Iveliz: You know, and I've listened to many of those episodes and I'm always just really impressed to see what's out there. You know, I think people give you this idea of what a lawyer is and it's so limiting because if you've never looked at the law, if you've never seen what a lawyer does, you might think that all they do is based off of Law and Order or based off of, right, those are your options. And so what I like about justice for all is that you ask questions of people and you don't ask it in a way that it's really difficult to understand or follow along. You have a conversation with people, you expose people to all the possibilities that are out there. And that is something to me that is very important as a first generation lawyer like you Rebecca, right? We didn't know what those possibilities were because we didn't have people to stand there and tell us what those possibilities were.

And so, you know, one of the things that I want to talk to you about is that, you know, we always try to leave people with some advice, we want people to hear different perspectives. And for me, you know, you while people looking at you may not even see all your dimensions of diversity, they clearly exist, right? You are a woman, you're a first generation lawyer, your parents, you know, a single parent at that in the legal profession. And those have been your lived experiences. And I know that your journey was long and it wasn't easy. You worked very hard and that much is evident by your story and all that you've accomplished. You are, you know, and I hate to say the term but a success story, all of your hard work and all of your efforts, you're someone people look up to, but it couldn't have been easy. And I want to know from you what are some things about our legal industry that may need to change, to support people like you, right? Who may be deciding to go into law school may think this is a little bit too hard because they have all these other responsibilities. What are some things we can change about our legal industry to support more Rebecca's out there, right? To, to have that be not just an anomaly but something that is the norm. 

Rebecca: I think that you cannot come into the any situation with the expectation that somebody is at the same place you are in the sense that, you know, just because I was able to do this doesn't necessarily mean everybody else is at that same place or has that same wherewithal to have done what I did. You know, I'm incredibly grateful for what I've done and I'm excited about the things I've done, but I can't expect everybody else to be at that same place, which is you have to meet people where they're at, as I've said, you know, prior in the interview earlier in the interview, you have to meet people with where they're at. And I also believe that really begins with judging people. How are you looking at someone? Are you judging them? Are you assuming what this person is about? Sometimes we could do more with listening. So one of the key things I do in trials as well as interviews is I listen, I listen to what someone's saying, what is this person actually saying to me? Because it's not always what you have the recording in your head and what your experience has been. What is this person actually saying? There's a difference between listening and actually hearing someone. And I think that that's one of the key things I learned as an attorney listening in trial. But also I used that in my interview. So I think that that can definitely be helpful in the legal environment. 

Iveliz: I love that, you know, I think, you know, what we're trying to do on the podcast is similar to what you're doing on Justice For All is highlighting all these unique stories, not everybody followed that linear path to get to law school, to be successful, to be a professional people. Some, some people may have taken a whole completely different path. And I think I love what I love most about what you're doing and I love most about our podcast is that, that's what we're trying to show is that there isn't this cookie cutter way of being a lawyer or being successful or being a professional, um, or being an advocate, right? Because I don't want to take away from your advocacy work because if you are an advocate, you know, the work that you've been doing for domestic violence victims really shouldn't, you know, go without saying, um, but I, I very much appreciate that and I think it's incredibly important and I hope people listen and hear that, right, is that meet people where they're at and listen to their stories, right? Because we'd be surprised about what we can learn from people. 

Rebecca: Well, you never know what you can pick up in life that may actually be helpful to. You don't think, you know everything because when you think, you know everything, maybe you need to hang up your hat. I mean, the one thing I love about law is that you're constantly learning, constantly learning, which is great. I think that that's, it's being in school for the rest of your life, you're constantly learning things, whether it be about an area of law or actually about people. 

John: 100%. Rebecca, I know we're, we're running out of time, but I'd really like to hear more about your work with the New Jersey Supreme Court State Domestic Violence Working Group. You know, we talk about you being an advocate against domestic violence. Can you tell us a little bit about the work of that group? Some of its successes and uh maybe how we can get more information about what the, what the group is doing. 

Rebecca: So the New Jersey Domestic Violence Working Group is, you know, different people who were appointed to this particular working group where we're working on issues in the domestic violence realm with within the courts. Um what's going on within the courts and any specific issues that tend to come up in the court and sometimes procedures in the court and we, you know, get together and talk about them, just try to come up with ways to address different issues that are going on. And you can always go on to the New Jersey Judiciary website and read any updates. Usually, if there's something coming out of the committee, you know, we'll talk about different cases that have come up and so forth. Like, you know, particularly if it's something that's affecting domestic violence cases directly. If there was a case on point, if you know, it's really going to affect domestic violence cases statewide, we always want to make sure everyone's aware of it, but you can go on to the New Jersey Judiciary website and you can always see any announcements of anything that's come up. 

Iveliz: Thank you. I mean, I think the work that you're doing is incredibly important and I guess, you know, one of the things I want to leave our listeners with is how can they stay in touch with you? Right. How can they, how can they tune in to Justice For All. How can people who might be looking for a family law practitioner? How can they reach you in case they have any questions for you in case they want to hire you? Right. Uh, in case they want to tune in to Justice For All. So how can we stay in touch? 

Rebecca: So, the firm I, uh, I partner at is Charny, Karpousis, Altieri & Donoian, you can go to our website, you can email me directly uh R Berger B-E-R-G-E-R at Charny Law. No E in there charnylaw.com one word or you can reach my firm 8565744343. Justice For All you can see on RVN television, you can search it online. It's a streaming network. We're also a channel on Roku. 

Iveliz: Thank you, Rebecca and and thank you again for gracing us with your time. It's always our pleasure to meet with people and highlight their personal stories because as John and I say we're always surprised when people share their personal stories. We might think that we're so different one another and we're all surprised by just how much we all 

Rebecca: How similar we are. 

Iveliz: Exactly, how similar we all are. So, thank you so much for joining us. 

Rebecca: Thank you so much for having me. 

John: It's been great, Rebecca. Thank you. 

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, PodBean, and reedsmith.com. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. 

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