Inspiring leaders: Colette Honorable

Colette Honorable, former FERC commissioner, a partner in Reed Smith’s Washington, D.C. office, and a member of Reed Smith’s executive committee – just to name a few of her leadership positions – joins co-hosts Iveliz Crespo and John Iino to talk about what it was like getting “the call” from President Obama to join the FERC. She also will share how she has navigated various challenges, such as being the only woman in the room, and she will give advice to younger women of color on reaching the highest levels of leadership.

Transcript: 

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.

John: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. As usual, I'm here with our co-host Iveliz Crespo. Hey, Iveliz.

Iveliz: Hey John.

John: The difference today is that literally we are sitting 2 ft apart from each other. Maybe it's not that socially distant 6 ft, but we are in the same office. So it's great to be with you here in the same office as well.

Iveliz: It’s good to be in Sunny Los Angeles.

John: So we are really privileged to continue with our series called Inspiring Leaders and our inspiring leader today that we are proud to introduce to our audience is Colette Honorable. Just a quick background and I literally could not go through all the different accomplishments that Colette has had so I'm gonna be brief Colette, but do doing you a disservice because you just have accomplished so many things, but first and foremost, Colette is a partner in our Washington D.C. office. She leads our firms, Reed Smith's Energy Regulatory Group. She's a member of Reed Smith's executive committee. She's a member of the ESG group among other things. Before joining Reed Smith Collette was a commissioner for the FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, nominated by President Obama in 2015. Before that, she was the chair of the Arkansas Public Service Commission where in that role, she was ensuring the safe, reliable and affordable retail electric service for the citizens of Arkansas. And even before that, she was the chief of staff for the Arkansas Attorney General. So just a couple of small achievements in, in, in a, in a very short career. Colette, we are just so honored to have you join us out here on the podcast.

Colette: Thank you so much, John and Iveliz. I am jealous that I'm not in the room with you guys.

Iveliz: You know, I, I want to say something for our listeners - when I first joined the firm two years ago, I asked for, I said I want to meet the best, you know, women of color in the office. I got a list of four people and Colette's name was number one on that list. We haven't got to meet each other in person actually. Not yet, but I'm just so thrilled that you're able to join us. And I still remember that four years ago. Someone said you have to meet her.

Colette: Oh, my goodness.

Iveliz: Introduce yourself.

Colette: Oh, my goodness. That is very humbling Iveliz.

John: Well, Colette, you know, as I mentioned, you've had already an amazing career and I, and you're just getting started. I, I kind of feel as well from, you know, from FERC commissioner, all the awards that you've won, you know, the countless publications that I've certainly seen and of course, uh, being part of our Reed Smith's executive committee, but start maybe from the beginning, you know, the title of our podcast is a Powerful Personal Stories. We always like to start off our podcast. Uh, hearing from our guests. Just your journey, your story from, you know, growing up in Arkansas. What was it like for you? And how did you get to be where you are today? And in particular, I'm kind of curious to know, how was it getting the call from the White House?

Colette: Wow, there's, there are decades in that answer. So I'll start at the beginning. Interestingly, I was born in Saint Louis. I have a twin sister. Her name is Colleen and we are five minutes apart. I'm the oldest, of course. Uh, so I've had folks run up to me and hug me in the airport and I'll hug them and say, I bet you think I'm Colleen and it just freaks them out. But I was born in Saint Louis, my family and I lived in Los Angeles in Baldwin Hills. As a matter of fact, until I was in the third grade and my parents divorced and she brought five kids back to Arkansas where both of my parents are from and hence my southern draw. But I'm just so grateful to have been raised in Arkansas. I feel that I learned so much about what is important in life, not awards and not superficial things, but about treating people well and about giving your best to a task. And that really served me well. And, and I, when I reflect back on that time, John, I think about the tremendous support that I had along with my brothers and sisters growing up from neighbors, from family, from friends, from teachers, from folks at church. And so it's just a beautiful upbringing, went away to college, came back home and went to law school, married my high school sweetheart and we have a daughter, Sydney. My husband has passed on unfortunately. Uh but my daughter is 21 and she's the best thing I ever have done in life and will ever do more important than the 20 jobs that I've had. Uh but I'm I'm grateful to have been able to focus on what's important, faith, family, friends and also to have some amazing career opportunities that have helped me grow along the way. What was it like to get the call from the White House? I joke that I am so glad I was at work that day, I was sitting in my office in Arkansas and in these jobs, you just travel a lot and you just get used to the road. But I was at work that day and got a call and the question was, and at that time, I was president of the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners affectionately known as NAGU. I got a call uh after we had been engaging with the White House around the Clean Power Plan and President Obama's desire to really make an impact on, on climate change impacts on our environment. And so there was a little tension there around who's on first. What's the federal government's job? What is the role of the state? And so I was doing my job and I guess maybe they thought if we can't beat this lady, we'll ask her to join us. And so I was asked, that was a joke, but I was asked to consider coming to D.C. after my husband insisted, I said yes, went through a background check. That was unbelievable. And from the time that I had my Senate confirmation hearing till the time that I was confirmed two weeks. Those were the good old days and it was a unanimous confirmation John. So that doesn’t happen a whole lot these days, but it was humbling and I'm so grateful that I said yes.

John: Cool story. And I love to be able to get that sneak peek into what it is behind the scenes.

Iveliz: Absolutely. Colette, one of the things that I like to kind of gauge and, and have this question with the people that, you know, join us on this podcast. I'm a big believer that our personal lived experiences really do shape who we are. And you mentioned that there are three things in your life that keep you grounded, right? You talked about family, you talked about faith, you talked about friends. So I want to know, you know, throughout your career, how has being a mother, how has being a friend, how has being faithful shaped who you are? Right? And how does that impact the way you serve your clients? Colette: Wow. I hope I remember the question after I say this to you, Iveliz, we are so blessed to have you here. It's as if you've been here for a decade or more the way you've gotten to know this firm and all of us individually. We are so grateful. To your question - I think that it has shaped me by keeping me grounded, first of all, because I've done some things that can be really heady. Just a couple of years ago. I was at a, a homegoing service for my best friend's mother. President Biden was there and they both came up and we hugged and held hands and the soon to be first lady complimented me on my shoes. I complimented her. That stuff is over the top, but I have to stay grounded and remember who I am, remember whose I am and what I am put on this earth to do. And there is no question that being a mother was the best job that I could ever have. And it is humbling too to think that you've been entrusted with the care and nurturing and growth of this little tiny human being to become something amazing in this world. And I think about also how that helps me today to be patient, to give grace to others, to also keep in mind that I don't really know what kind of day other folks are having and not to be judgmental and to be willing to teach and more importantly to be willing to learn. And so the the experiences that I've had growing up where someone gave grace to my mother and to us. She raised five kids working in maintenance for 40 years because she dropped out of cosmetology school to get married. And so she raised five kids on less than 20,000 a year. And so you had to focus on what's important because there weren't a lot of material things. And quite honestly, if I could circle back there, it's an honor to have my mother retired and being with me now, she is still keeping me grounded at my young age of 52. Uh So it's quite interesting to have your mom living with you at this age.

Iveliz: You know, I love that. I always feel like every time I do this podcast, I'm so surprised at how much, you know, we have in common with one another. My mother did the same thing. She raised five kids on the same salary. I am always just thinking about how that really shapes us, right to see such strength embodied in a human being.

Colette: Yes.

Iveliz: It just, it, it is something that is inspiring and every time I'm feeling down or I'm thinking, you know, this is hard. I think about my mom and I'm like my mom thought it was hard too and she kept trotting and she kept doing this and she gave me all the opportunity to be here. So I just resonate with that story.

Colette: To our moms! My mother held her head up high. You would never know she had a problem. And now, you know, if we break a nail, we're just gonna have a meltdown. We're not built like our mothers were so, to our moms.

John: To our moms. So Colette then this series that we're doing is, is called inspiring leaders. I’d like to share some of your, your experiences and, and development into leadership. Maybe you're just a natural born leader as well. And I kind of sense that, but how did you gain some of the skills that you have that you've acquired really to rise to the highest level of government and highest levels of legal practice. You know, every single position you've held is just so amazing. How, how did you develop those skills and, and how did you gain, gain, gain that experience?

Colette: Thanks for that question, John. It's really quite introspective, isn't it? When I think about how I evolved, you won't believe this John. I used to be so terrified to speak in public and I used to be to the point that it would bring me to tears. That's how horrified I would be, even in junior high school. But I pushed through that. One funny story though, when I was in the fifth grade. Around that time, I really sensed myself being a little different than other kids. In fact, I remembered not wanting to go out on recess. So I would get my lunch from the cafeteria and go into the registrar's office, the secretary's office and relieve them and they loved it because they could have their lunch away from the main office. And those were in the days when we weren't as concerned about safety as we are today. But I felt very grown up. I, I thought the kids were silly so I didn't want to go out on recess. The boys were especially silly and I just loved being in charge. But I had, as girls often do, this ebb and flow of confidence and then self doubt and then another burst of great self esteem and then a period of questioning myself. But then I think as I grew older, just wanting to lead. It was very natural. And my father who has passed on also was a very strong leader. He was a college graduate. He worked in real estate, he taught college. And I always said growing up, I would never be like my dad. And now I am so much like him. I think he would burst with pride if he were here today. But I think it came naturally. But I also feel abundantly blessed and that it is also a blessing to encourage others to motivate others, to inspire others and to support others. So I think it's um just a mix of both of my, my mother is the hugger in the family and the one that says, I love you every day. And so I'm a just a, I guess a wonderful mix of both of them. But I think what I put out into the world is what was put into me. So I have to always give credit to my, my parents indeed, and my siblings as well, and we all support each other fiercely.

John: Such rich advice there. You know, strong leaders, encourage, motivate, inspire others earlier. You talked about patience, grace, not to be judgmental, just amazing qualities. And that's no, no doubt that how you became so successful with the, you know, the the role model models that your father and mother were a as well. So thank you very much for sharing.

Colette: If I could share a couple of other things that come to mind. I, I really, I'm a planner. I've never been a dreamer and to be clear, I think Iveliz and I were speaking about our backgrounds, it was what it was or it wasn't. And so I, I wouldn't say I was a dreamer, but I planned and I'm highly organized even today because that's the only way you can operate at this capacity where you're giving so much to what you do and also supporting a lot of other people. But those are two inherent traits if you will, along with being very disciplined. I had no idea that 12 FBI agents would come through my life from age 18. But I'm glad I made good choices when I was young and I hope it served me well today,

Iveliz: I love that. And, you know, we've talked a lot about grace and I think it's very clear, right? At least, you know, for us that you are probably one of the most accomplished people that, you know, we, we know and it didn't come without hard work, right? It didn't come without giving a lot of yourself, as you just said. And I, I wanna, I wanna say that one of the things I really love about, you know, you is that you embody such grace and maybe that's something you earn you gain from your mother. But I could never tell if you had a rough day or a bad day. And I just think that's just such an amazing thing to just be able to exercise that patience and that grace. And I guess part of why I'm leading with this is that they were clearly challenges along the way. But looking at you and seeing everything you've accomplished, one would not think that right one would not know how, what those challenges were. And so I want to get to the heart of that, you know, what were some of the challenges that you face right before you became, you know, Colette Honorable, this fantastic lawyer, this, this fantastic mother, this fantastic friend, you know, what were some of those challenges and how do they impact you?

Colette: Thank you for asking that. I'm humbled too by the whole run up and the whole setup Iveliz. I will say, first of all, and this is the truth that's gonna sound like a joke. I am older now. And so I am grateful to have been shaped by challenges and, and to also learn what I'm made of. So as I've gotten older, I'm more wise, I'm more thoughtful. When I was younger. I would, I would have to have the last word. My father thought I should become a lawyer because I love to have a retort and to tell somebody something. So thank goodness I've grown up now. But I think that we are all shaped by things that have happened along the way in our lives over which we had no control, nor could we have seen them coming. I spoke about losing my husband but before that I lost my father when I was pregnant with my daughter. I was seven months pregnant. So I think if I told all of this chapter that I'm gonna tell you now, Iveliz, someone might say bless her heart, as we say down South and they might feel sorry for me. But I think it's more about gaining resilience and becoming and getting so intimately familiar with who I am and quite frankly how strong I am through these challenges and chapters in my life and I like to share them. So I'm glad that you asked me because it enables me to tell more of a complete story. Because if someone just read my bio, John, thanks for not reading all of that stuff. They would think. Oh, this lady, she's had it easy her entire life. No, I have not. So I lost my dad seven months pregnant. We got that call from the White House. I went home to my husband who was my best friend. We dated 10 years in high school and we were married uh through high school and college and we were married 19 years. And I said, you know what, guess who called today? The White House. But I'm gonna tell him we're not gonna take this job. We're not going there. We love it here. We love our family. We love our neighborhood. And our neighbors and church and Syd’s school and we have no family in D.C.. And Ricky said you're not gonna tell them you won't take it. You're gonna tell them you're interested in the job. And if you get the job, we're going to D.C. And no man would ever tell the White House they're not coming to take a job. So I said, ok, I was really torn at that time. I was chair of the Public Service Commission NERU president had a young child and my husband was ill. He had kidney failure, but we were managing it and he was doing as well as he could under the circumstances. He had an unexpected complication during a routine treatment. And three weeks after President Obama announced my nomination, he passed away. So, right as we reached our 19th anniversary of which he was not aware at that time and I took off two months. I called the White House and said I need to take two months and just be in prayer. I didn't know what to do. It was I say jokingly like the best of times, like the most amazing time and the very worst time. And often when I tell this story, usually to women and young women, I I talk about the fact that it may have been a couple of years before I read every single card that came in the mail. Some folks sent congratulatory cards. Some folks sent cards of condolence. Some people wrote it all in one card. The postman just left a big box at the door and just put all this mail in it every day. I felt so overwhelmed, but I really gained clarity through that two month period and decided I would pursue it and really got back up, dusted myself off, literally would have to open the shades, comb my hair, you know, wash my face, bear through grief. That was unlike anything I've ever experienced. And here we are today and my daughter who was 13 at the time, I remember we got up that morning, went to church, me and my mom and my daughter got on a plane and came to D.C. And I looked at my daughter and said, baby girl, this is a term we use. Tell me what you think about all of this. And my 13 year old said mom, whatever happens happens. She didn't say, how can you take me away from my friends in my life? She said whatever happens, which really is such a testament to who she is as well. Thank God she's so much like my late husband in that way, I've lost more family in my, in my immediate family than I care to share in this moment. I've not gotten jobs that I pursued. By the way, this is my second time up for the FARC post. And John, I was recommended for an article three judgeship also. And at that time, Rahm Emanuel said, President Obama has something else in mind for her. And I jokingly said, well, I wish they would tell me what are they planning for my life? And this is what it was. So I've had challenges in work. I've had challenges working with others at times, but I've really focused more on who I am. What I could do not to expend energy over things I could not control. And then always to be reflective about each experience. And to be honest, I'm really still uncomfortable with being highlighted and being in the spotlight. I'm actually very ordinary, almost average I would say. I've been blessed in extraordinary ways. And so I know it's to share my story and to hopefully encourage someone else. And I hope too to reach someone who and I hope no one ever has to endure some of these tragedies that I have and challenges that I have. But I hope that anyone who hears my story will take away from it, the importance of getting back up again. You know, it's about overcoming and it's about becoming. And so thank you for asking the question and I hope you'll indulge my really long answer.

Iveliz: No, you should have seen me taking notes. I mean, I'm just, I'm just very much moved by your lessons. I think I'm a big fan of not reinventing the wheel, right? If, if someone has all this wealth of information, I should do my best to take notes and help apply that in my life. So I thank you for that because I think it's a beautiful message that you left, right? It's about becoming and that's, that's lovely.

John: So many things that take away from that story of grief, perseverance, uh inspiration. And I love what uh your 13 year old daughter Sydney said, whatever happens, happens. And uh it's that acceptance of life that to know that life happens and how we move forward and what we learn from that. So just, just powerful. That's just just, it's just amazing. Let me switch gears a little bit here. Colette, you know, at Reed Smith, we're spending a lot of time on uh inclusive leadership. That means a lot of things to a lot of people. But in particular, what does inclusive leadership mean to you?

Colette: Great question, John, inclusive leadership means so many things to me. First it means putting others first and being thoughtful about others. How do those around you feel? How do they embrace this place? So I'll think about the firm here. Do they feel a part of the success of this organization or do they only feel pointed out when there's something that goes wrong? I also think about being a nurturer and a teacher and a supporter of our colleagues at the firm in as much as I am a continual and perpetual student. My goodness. I didn't know a thing about big law. John, I remember meeting you early on and I thought it'll take me 20 years to get to where John is in this place and I'm still learning. But for me, inclusive leadership is about finding and bringing out the best in others and surrounding oneself with people who are nothing like you. They don't look like you. They weren't raised like you, they weren't educated in the way you were because there is such strength in that and the collaboration that takes place in that space is so rich and so robust that I truly believe that only great things can come from. That inclusive leadership also means taking a backseat and listening and not speaking. And so it's important that inclusive leaders find the diamonds in the rough and that they take the time to lift up, push up, hold up others because otherwise we would become stagnant as an organization and we wouldn't learn and grow and evolve. And it's so critical today that we transform uh the ways in which we work, the ways in which we support clients and the ways in which we support our communities. And I think the pandemic really, everything that has evolved during that time really highlights that need to be inclusive in our leadership, not just for a period of time, but in perpetuity.

Iveliz: It's amazing. You know, one of the things I also just really like to focus on, I think people see very successful people and they don't see themselves often in that person. Right? Because they think this person is an anomaly, they're the exception. And so with all those amazing things that have gone on your life and all of those challenges that you face and overcome, you know, I think it's, it's hard, you know, not to have, you know, a certain aura about you, but you managed to stay grounded, right? You manage to be very personal and, and I think that's coming through so much in this podcast is just how much of a beautiful human you are. And so to me, I want to know for, for those that struggle, right? That say, you know what? I hate it here, I can't do this anymore. What advice do you have for them in terms of staying grounded, moving forward?

Colette: Wow. And thank you, Iveliz for those really kind words. I had an opportunity to interview Ursula Burns for the Clinton Library, Distinguished Lecturer series. And she, she thought of herself in that way, just very ordinary. And I said, oh my goodness, no, you, you, you are not ordinary. She talked about the fact Iveliz that she looked around and saw no one like her. She was invited to a White House roundtable of CEOs. She didn't see another one like her. Think about today where we have now Justice Kanji Brown Jackson and think about the impact that this will have on little black and brown girls, black women black jurist in particular and to see someone who looks like me in that place, I'm so blessed to have lived during this time to see it. I mean, we could go on and on for you. It's Justice Sotomayor. And so it's just such an incredible time. I think it's important that we remind ourselves we're all human and we all make mistakes. I'll never forget my first trial. I was so set on not allowing this piece of evidence in. I objected for every reason. I thought I could. Something I didn't tell you all, my mother cleaned the federal courthouse in the federal building. So you talk about your parents or your mother going before you my first federal jury trial, the judges knew me because of my mother for crying out loud. Um, and when I was sworn in, we were sworn in in a courtroom that my mother cleaned. So it's just so much time has passed. But when I think about that trial, this was a state court trial. I remembered making an objection that it was hearsay. This document was because the witness did not create the writing. And the judge said he kind of smiled at me, the southern smile that kind of says you're, you're going off the deep end here. And he said, now explain to me your objection again. I wanna make sure I understand it. And I went on and on about it. Very emotional. He said, he wanted to ask counsel to approach. He was very gracious and he told me at the, at the bench that this exception to hearsay did not require that the witness be the author of the writing. Now, I knew that, but in that moment, I was just so competitive and I just said, thank you, your honor. That is absolutely correct to and, stood back, shook it off like a duck in water and forged on. Now that day, I thought, oh, that was so ridiculous. Why did I do that? I never got those objections wrong again. People would ask me to second chair, their trials come pick their juries handle their jury instructions, handle rebuttal, handle closing statements, help them on brief, help them on appeal. And I first chaired quite a bit as well because I learned that lesson hard and I learned it well and I was never gonna make that mistake again. So I learned from that day to always be the most prepared in the room. And that is something we can each take to heart. Don't kick yourself when you stumble and fall, learn from it. Did you truly get the lesson or was it that you were so embarrassed about what happened? Learn the lesson. Be a student, stay humble and get up and dust yourself off and get back in the game. So those lessons, I think we can all learn and to also give grace to our colleagues when they're having a tough time, especially now. We don't know our neighbors' stories and the offices next to us. We don't know what they, what's going on at home. We don't know what's happening with their kids. What is that saying? You're only as happy as your least happiest child. There are so many folks that are dealing with a lot that has nothing to do with work. So we should be understanding of one another and really have the that gives you the ability to rally, to inspire, to motivate that team will run through a brick wall for you because they'll see you working just as hard as they are and with incredible emotional intelligence as well. And working with a spirit of excellence when Senator Pryor, a gentleman for whom I worked when he was attorney general. When he introduced me at the Senate hearing, he said I was a self made woman, which I take great exception to that I'm not self made. But he also said I was the hardest working person. He knew that was a, a compliment to me because that's how I was raised. And that is important to me that I give my best to this place because it's an incredible firm. It's an incredible place to work. I love coming here every day and I love working hard for issues and for causes of our clients and for those of the firm. So it's really amazing to do it. And so I hope some of those characteristics are helpful to our colleagues and friends.

John: Collette. I, I wanted to drill down on something you just said in terms of you're only successful as your most unhappy child or something along those lines. And earlier, you know, you, you said that, that, that you being a mother was the best job you've ever had. How have you been able to, to balance being a parent more recently, a single parent with such a demanding career in, in, in working so hard and so many people struggle with that. But you seem to navigate it very well. Colette: It's the grace of God, first of all, but it takes a village. You know, southern folks have all these sayings and phrases and I use them a lot and I've learned in my international travel, some translate well and some absolutely do not. It took a, an incredible support team and you won't believe this John, my daughter has never had a babysitter. Syd has never been with a babysitter. I thought we would put her in daycare and my mother-in-law and my in-laws, they are like parents to me, they love me. They didn't know what to think of me when Ricky brought me home because my mother-in-law is very docile and soft spoken. She won't speak up much, very much in the background, not me, you know. So I drive around at night, I'll travel to halfway across to Australia by myself. I I pump my own gas, you know. So I'm just a different kind of a woman, but they embraced me. But when Syd was, I guess almost a year old and I was gonna return back to work, I told my, my mother-in-law said, what are you all gonna do about Syd while you're at work? I said, well, I'm looking at some daycares and she said, oh, no, no, Honorable baby goes to daycare. So Ricky had an aunt who had just retired and was a teacher. And so that's where Syd went every day until she started at a Montessori school. I could tell a million stories like that and how my family, my siblings have been there for me, how friends have been there for us and so Iveliz when I mentioned what a challenge it is having my mother live with me. I am grateful and blessed because someone's there to receive packages and someone's there to let the plumber in and you know, so on and so forth. Someone's there to give the check to the folks who mow the yard. What were you saying, Iveliz?

Iveliz: and bring you bacon!

Colette: Absolutely. Bring me bacon. John. I was saying when, when we're in some of our zoom meetings, there are days I can go. It it might be three or four o'clock and I think, oh my goodness. I haven't eaten today but Mimi with her sweet self will just come in and pass me a plate with something, it might be fruit or she loves to bring me bacon, even though I've been buying turkey bacon so we could eat a little better in that regard. But it just, it's such a pick me up, just something that you need to, to get by. And that's just one tiny example. But it's, it really takes a team of folks who are also selfless and giving and loving and who are willing to invest in you. It's so humbling and I never take it for granted and I'm always grateful.

John: Well, you summed it up the beginning Colette, you said, faith, family and friends and that the recipe for success. Fantastic.

Iveliz: You know, Colette, I, I recognize we're short on time. So I just wanna, you know, any final thoughts that you want to leave our listeners with?

Colette: I wanna thank you both. First of all, and you guys are no strangers to not only the legal community, but the broader community focused on inclusion. This is such a meaningful podcast and the ways in which you are elevating issues in such a lovely way, in a way that is so embraced is so meaningful. I, I truly believe you are changing lives because you're impacting work environments and home environments. And so I just wanted to thank you both for first of all, being who you are for also leading it is there is no doubt this is what you both were put on this earth. To do and the fact that you were listening to that and obedient to that means that we are all immeasurably blessed by it. So, thank you both.

John: Colette, Honorable, thank you for coming in. Sharing all your amazing advice to our listeners. I'm sure that uh just based on this episode alone, it will change people's lives. So, thank you.

Iveliz: Thank you.

Colette: Thanks so much.

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, Play, Stitcher, PodBean and reedsmith.com. This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney client relationship nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.

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