Coaching: A diversity, equity & inclusion development tool

Reed Smith’s Global DE&I Advisor Iveliz Crespo chats with Global Diversity Chair John Iino and DE&I Executive-Career Coach Kendrea Tannis about their journeys to coaching and why coaching is for everyone, including lawyers.

Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast. Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included. 

Iveliz: Hello, everyone, Iveliz Crespo here. Welcome back. Today I'm joined by our co-host, John Iino. Hi, John. 

John: Hey, Iveliz. 

Iveliz: We have a really great guest today. I'm very pleased to, to, you know, welcome one of our newest team members, Kendrea Tannis, who recently joined Reed Smith as our DEI executive career coach. Welcome Kendrea. 

Kendrea: Thank you for having me. 

Iveliz: So, Kendrea, on our podcast, we often like to highlight the powerful personal stories of leading uh industry leaders and I know, you know, from our private discussions as our new team member uh that you have an amazing story and I'd love to have you share that story here with us today. Tell us a little bit about who you are and your career trajectory that led you to become an executive career coach. 

Kendrea: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for that intro. So, I graduated from law school at Duke School of Law in 2010 and I did what most of my classmates at Duke did. Um, I took the Washington DC Bar, the New York Bar exam as well. And I went to a large firm in DC. So I started my career in the environmental litigation group at Baker Bots in their DC office. And it's really what I thought I was supposed to do. It's what everyone around me was doing. And it was kind of a marker of success for the people in our school and in our class. And so there I was as a first year at Baker Botts plugging away billing and learning as much as I could. And it didn't take very long um for me to kind of come to the realization that practicing, in the way that I was at least wasn't exactly what I was hoping it would be. Um It felt a little different than what I was expecting. And I started to ask myself some questions even as a 1st and 2nd year, namely, was I happy? Um What else could I see myself doing? What did I want to do? What did I think I might be good at what might be a good use of my skills and talents. And so that's kind of where the churning started for me. I started asking those questions. Eventually after two years, my husband and I relocated to Dallas and I declined an offer from Baker Box to join their Dallas office, which was probably the boldest thing I had done in my career to that point. Um Instead I took a position at a small HBCU Historically Black College or University here in Dallas as an administrative dean. And that was an awesome experience. I ended up staying in Higher Ed for two years. It was awesome because I was working with people of color and diverse professionals. For the first time in my career, I was making an impact that I thought was important and I just felt alive going to work every day. And that was really some of my introduction into the coaching world because I was advising and mentoring and coaching students. I didn't have the language to call it coaching at the time. But in hindsight, that's what I was doing. And so from there, I decided to go back to practicing. Um I went to Aken Gump in their Dallas office, stayed for five years, was promoted to council and from there to the to government at the SEC Securities and Exchange Commission. And finally, I decided to take the leap that I knew I wanted to take all along. I pursued my coaching certification while still at the SEC. I went ahead and hired my own coach, um a business coach and started my company as an entrepreneur. So I also have my own company called The Pivoting Lawyer in which I work with attorneys of color at various stages in their career. And it's been a really rewarding and here I am also at Reed Smith in this role as well. So very excited to be in these dual roles at this point in my career. 

Iveliz: Yeah. And we're, you know, we're lucky to have you, Kendrea, you know, you mentioned the love and the passion that you have for coaching and I think it shows, you know, when you, when you talk and when you speak about coaching, it certainly shows just how invested and how much you enjoy, what you do. Now, John, I know that typically on our podcast, you, you, you sit more in the co-host seat, but I want to invite you to join this discussion on coaching. You know, I think our listeners know that you're a Chief Diversity Officer, but many of them may not be aware of the fact that you've recently transitioned into executive coaching yourself. Would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself? I'm gonna shift gears and put you in a hot seat right now. 

John: Absolutely. After 20 something episodes of recording, I actually never really got to talk about myself. I was always hearing from our great guests. So, yeah, in addition to um you know, serving as our Chief Diversity Officer at Reed Smith, I also, like Kendrea have my own um coaching uh practice I, uh, received my coaching training back in 2019 from an organization called IPEC. And earlier, last year, in 2020 I was able to achieve the certification from the ICF International Coaching Federation, their associate certified coach status. And so relative, for those of you who don't know, you know, coaching is a regulated uh, profession. There's a lot of people out there that hold themselves out as coaches, but they're really not um certified. And the importance is that, you know, we go through a rigorous training and a lot of clinical hours in order to, uh, you know, achieve our certification. We, um, you know, addition, the, the training which you'd have to go through an accredited training program, there's tests and, and, and hours requirement, for example, um I'm what's called an ACC associate certified coach and that requires 100 clinical hours which are paid hours, not just volunteer hours. There's another level called professional certified coach, which is named by PCC, uh, which has 500 hours and the highest level is MCC, which is master certified coach and that's 2500, you know, uh clinical hours. But in terms of my, my background, it's, you know, in, in the work of as Chief Diversity Officer. A couple of years ago, I was talking to a colleague at another um organization, a shout out to Gabriel Brown and Morgan Stanley and I was asking her about coaching because we really wanted to put some of our diverse talent into coaching programs. And she had asked me if I was gonna require that the coaches we send them to be certified. And I had no idea at that point. So I did some investigation and, you know, one step led to another and I said, you know, this is something really I think I should be doing is coaching and it's really, you know, been transformative to me both as a Chief Diversity Officer, but just, you know, in terms of everything I do because as I think about our programming and we do uh on diversity and the coaching skills you learn in terms of how to um move forward, how to achieve your goals, how to hold, you know, people accountable. There's a lot of skills that, that transferred from my coaching training into our diversity um programming. So it's been really, really um helpful. But more than anything, I, I felt that if we were going to run a successful diversity program, it was important for me personally to have a pulse for what the issues are that are diverse talent in particular are, are seeing what are the issues that people have and what are some of the barriers to, to their success. And, and you really being at a grassroots level, I thought was going to be very important. So I was very fortunate that after um the COVID pandemic hit I just got my coaching certification and I literally volunteered my time to our diverse talent and I was expecting about 10 folks to take me up on the offer, but end up, uh, 15 of our attorneys, um, signed up and I didn't want to turn anyone down. And so, um, in one form or another, you know, a lot of them have gone through the whole program of 12 coaching sessions um over the course of the year. So it's just been really, really great to get to know some of our diverse talent in different ways and continue to expand my, my coaching experience and coaching credentials. 

Iveliz: Wow. And you know, I thank you for that outline, John, I think it's, it's really important to keep in mind, right? That this, this is an industry that is regulated, um and that, you know, requires a lot of effort and, and work and, and a lot of hours spent into making sure that, you know, this is, this is being done right. So I think, you know, for the benefit of the audience, I would love to get, you know, an overview in your perspective, Kendrea, you know, what is coaching and, and how does it work for those that may not be familiar with what coaching actually is? 

Kendrea: Yeah, great question. Um I will start with the official definition from the international Coaching Federation and then I will give my own personal experience um definition as well. So the ICF defines coaching as partnering with clients in the thought provoking and creative process that inspires the client to maximize their personal and professional potential. The two most important words in that definition are partnering and process. So coaching is a process that the client and the coach partner together for and walk through together. In walking through that process, both the coach and the client have specific roles that they play. So as the coach, my job is to walk alongside my client to ask powerful questions, to believe my client when they answer those questions for me, and then also to hold my client accountable to the things that they've asked me to hold them accountable to and to the things that they might want to be held accountable to. The client. On the other hand, has the responsibility of bringing the agenda to the coaching session. And all that means is the client decides what we discuss and what the issue is that we're walking through during the coaching session. Everything about coaching is client led. It is not my role or my place as the coach to say, hey, you know, we've had four sessions now and I really think you would benefit if we spent our hour today talking about X topic. It's always the client that says this is what I want to talk about today. So that's the client's um first role. And secondarily, the client has to be ready to show up and do the work. And what I mean by that is coaching is not about me telling the client what to do, me advising or suggesting to the client what to do or telling them what I would do if I were in their situation. It's really about the client looking within themselves, taking the time and energy to be reflective and looking, look inside of themselves and figure out together what it is the client wants to do. So showing up and doing the work would mean fully engaging in that process, being willing to do any homework assignments that you might have to do outside of session and really believing that you as a whole individual have the answer that you're looking for within yourself. So it's definitely a partnership and some language you might hear in the coaching world is a co creative process. So we are co creating the solutions to the client's problem and the client is really the driver in that not the coach. Um So that's my personal definition coaching. Um it's, it's a process and it's a two and, and it's a set of skills. Uh And so the coach brings the skills to the table and together coach and client walk through this process together. 

Iveliz: That's great. And so John, we now know what, you know, an overview of what coaching is, who would benefit from coaching? Are there specific groups that would benefit more or you know, what are your thoughts on who, who might be someone that could benefit from, from this coaching or really anybody who can benefit from coaching? 

John: Well really anyone can benefit from coaching and, you know, I was interested in, in, in becoming as a coach in part because I had received coaching over the course of my career. Uh when I first made partner, I remember I was nervous about, ok. Now, with all these expectations on me to being a partner, I've got to go bring in business. I've got, you know, do all these things. I had gotten coaching at that point. And then after that, uh that period of time, I had become a practice group leader and which was managing the entire practice group. And again, I was very nervous about taking on that new role. So again, I retained, hired my coach again to help me through that transition. So there's, there's a lot of value to, to, to whoever is interested in coaching. I think there's a stigma or, uh out there about people that seek coaching is that coaching is remedial. Coaching is not, you know, just for folks that are having, you know, uh, uh problems or, or, or, you know, needing course correction. Even the most, I would say, if you look at the most successful people in whatever organizations, you know, they'll probably say that they've had um, certified or prof or professional coaches as well. Um CEOs and leaders. Um, you know, I know many of them, you know, have uh coaching. So there it's we can coach really anyone. Um and I'll talk a little later in terms of, you know, you don't have to be an expert in any particular industry in any particular field uh to be a great coach. Really, as Kendrea was mentioning, you know, the skills you learn as a coach just can translate to, to whatever, you know, position or whatever, wherever you find yourself in your trajectory. So bottom line Iveliz, I'd say that, you know, everyone can benefit of coaching. Um Sometimes I actually think about it as like a personal trainer. It's, it's someone that uh can help you stay accountable. Uh keep you on a path. The coach is not doing any of the heavy lifting, you know, you're, you're doing that work, but the coach just uh helps guide you on that, on that process. 

Iveliz: Thank you John. And I've certainly seen, you know, your coaching skills would be very useful in terms of, you know, when we're doing these DEI trainings and working together and trying to shift, you know, mindsets and trying to get people to, you know, places where, you know, they need to be. And so I've certainly seen that those tools that you've learned really shine bright in a lot of different settings. So thankful that, you know, that that's, that, that's something that you're passionate and skilled in doing. Um Now Kendrea just shifting back to you, I know that John talked, you know, about being a practicing attorney prior to being a coach, but I that's also a similar career trajectory that you took. So would you mind sharing with us you know, why do you make that shift from being a practicing attorney to being a executive career coach? 

Kendrea: Yeah. So for me, the shift was really about impact and of course, at a large law firm as a practicing litigator, you're making a huge impact, you know, your clients really value your work. And you know, I'm not saying that the impact wasn't there. But over time, I began to ask myself whether this was the impact I wanted to have and if not, then what? And so I was making an impact. I had all of the outward signs of success, but I wasn't feeling the kind of fulfillment that I thought I should be feeling if the impact was there, at least the impact I thought I wanted to have. And so the shift for me was really about being my best self. I think I could have stayed at a law firm for 20 years and done just fine and you know, just make, you know, make up my mind to, to make the best of it and, and move forward. Um I think a lot of people do that. And for good reason, I graduated from law school with six figure student loan debt. My husband was a phd student for six years. So I get it. It's not as easy as just saying, I wanna make a different impact and let me quit my job and go make that other impact. But as the years went on, I slowly found myself in a position where I could make that difficult shift and I decided to go for it. I was really afraid of having the years go by and not making a move and thinking about what that would mean for me, more than I was afraid of making this shift and somehow regretting it. And so I decided to go for it and believed that in taking this path and in making this move, I could have the impact that I wanted to have. I wanted to be for diverse attorneys at law firms, diverse professionals, what I didn't have when I was in the law firm setting, which is unbridled, support, someone I could go into their office and close the door and really just take the mask off because I think a lot of diverse attorneys and professionals wear a mask at work, at least for some part of the time. And what I didn't have in my law firm in my time at law firms was just someone I could go to and take the mask off that I knew would be entirely in my corner, not judging me, would guide me, would help me find my own solutions. And I decided that I wanted to be that for attorneys still practicing. Um, so the shift was easy for me. A lot of people say, well, wow, you know, you make a lot of money at law firms. You know, why did you make that jump? Um, and for me, after I paid the student loans and did all of the practical things, the shift was actually easy and I would do it again 1000 times over. 

Iveliz: You know, it's one of the things that I love most about this podcast is and in hearing people's personal stories, you know, we, we really start to see how much we have in common despite our differences, right? And so it's one of my, one of the things that you said really resonated with me is that, you know, it, it was a tough decision, but you don't regret it at all. And, and, and it's clear, right? And I, I think it resonates with me because when I transitioned from practicing law to being a full time DEI practitioner, I felt the same, you know, and there was a sense of nervousness, particularly given where my advisor and my mentors and my sponsors who'd advocated for me were very nervous about me leaving the practice of law at such a pivotal moment in my career. But, you know, like you, I don't regret it at all. And I feel like this was what I was meant to be doing and I left for the same reasons. Right? It's about impact and where can I do the most good? And I say this all the time when I was litigating civil rights cases and employment discrimination cases and I'd win. There was a rush, Right? When you win and you get a victory for your client and it feels good that you actually help someone. But the, what, what I try to tell people is that when I got into DEI work, imagine being part of the solution where people don't even have to experience discrimination at work. Where people don't have to live through that and have that be their lived experience. And to me, it was about the impact so similar to you. And it's just always amazing to me to hear personal stories because it gets me so excited about the work that we do um because it is so important and people do need to have advocates like you and in your position and John and his position and myself and mine. So just incredible. I love, I love this part of the podcast. Now, you know, shifting down through some of these questions that we have. You know, I know that a lot of law firms recently have been investing in in-house coaches. Uh just like Reed Smith, why do you think Kendrea, why do you think we're moving in that direction? Why do you think law firms are doing that? And maybe some other uh corporations might be doing that as well. 

Kendrea: I think there are several reasons. Um, number one competition in the legal field is really stiff and tight right now. There's a big push for attorneys and even more so for attorneys of color to explore their options. And I think firms are having to do more in order to retain their diverse attorneys and in order to send the message clearly and strongly that they are fully invested in their attorneys ell being in their professional development, in their happiness even. And that's not something firms really had to do before. Um But they're having to do it now. I think we're seeing that across the board. I also think in this quasi post COVID world employees are bolder and they're not afraid to ask for what they want. They're not afraid to say, hey, this model that we have is not working for me. I need some flexibility here. I need you to support me here. Um I need X, Y or Z resource there. I think COVID has emboldened people for a variety of reasons. We see that tomorrow is not promised the world could go crazy in a matter of a few weeks. And I think there's just this zest for excellence and for fulfillment now that was dormant before. And so there are those two reasons, I also think that having someone in house um gives the firm of a special advantage. Most firms do have the option of referring attorneys to an outside coach. But I think the advantage of having someone internal is that not only does this person know about firms in general and can help you walk through some issues that you might be having, but over time, this person also develops an acumen for that specific firm. And so there are unique issues that might face attorneys and professional staff at Reed Smith, that might not be the case at the firm down the street. And I think there's a real value add there of having someone in house who is committed to getting familiar and intimate with the specific issues of that firm and then turning around and pouring into, into attorneys and then the consistency, you're coming to the same person, you know, they're gonna make time for you, you're a part of the same team. And I think it sends a really strong message that the firm is committed to you having a future there, which is really the messaging that all attorneys and professional staff want to hear you have a future here. We see you, we know you have needs and we're at least making an effort to meet those needs because we want you to stay. Why? Because we value you. 

Iveliz: So I think our audience is sold in that coaching is good for business, right? And so, you know, I think, you know, we've, we've talked a lot about what coaching is, you know, how people, what benefits coaching can bring and why organizations should consider having their own in-house coaches. But John, you know, I'm kind of curious when you're going about selecting a coach, you know, what are some things that you should consider? And in particular, do coaches need to have the same lived experiences as their clients? Um, in order to be an effective coach? 

John: Well, I alluded to this a little earlier but I would also agree, you know, wholeheartedly with Kendrea said as well, is just having a little bit of experience within the law firm does give us, you know, some baseline just to make sure we, we, we, we understand this the same things. And so working me working at Reed Smith for the last 20 plus years and having been in senior management and the like I think does bring a different perspective to the coaching because I see things through perhaps a different light. But to specifically, to answer your question, you know, you don't have to have a coach that's in your industry. You don't have to have a coach which who, you know, have your exact life experiences because a truly great coach can coach anything. And as you know, we were trained, we can coach and it doesn't have to be lawyers. It could be, you know, folks in, in various professions. When I was training, I, I would coach someone that's in an accountant. I coached somebody that was, uh, you know, occupational therapist and, uh, talking about lived experiences, last year, I was coaching one of our attorneys who was getting ready to go on parental leave and she was talking through all the things she needed to do and obviously I hadn't had a baby before or biologically never be that as a parent I did, but I guess, but just walking through some of the issues and, um, you know, I thought we were really successful in coming up with a plan for all the things she needed to do and the people she needed to reach out to and you know, how she wanted her image to be left and all those things and also to talk about how she's going to set herself for success when she comes back. So, yeah, you don't have to be an expert in the field. The only thing I would say and I certainly do this with the, with the, um the clients that I work with that you just have to have a rapport and feel comfortable. I mean, it's a little bit, it's maybe like dating, right? You know, if you feel comfortable you, you know, it's, it feels easy, you feel the ability to open up and, and, and share, you know, that's probably the most important thing is, do you have a sense of trust and comfort with your coach that you're really willing to open up and, and, you know, dig deep in terms of you know, all the things that, uh, you, you may want, want to talk about. Now, point of clarification, you know, we're, we're coaches, we aren't therapists, Right? And so we also always have to kind of keep the line of not delving into what licensed therapists do. But certainly we, we, we're trained to know that the difference and be able to work with folks and, you know, really get under the, underneath the surface there. Why are some people having some issues getting to this next level and, and understanding some of that? And as a coach, you just love to hear those we call aha moments when all of a sudden there's a breakthrough and someone sees something that they hadn't previously seen, sometimes they'll cry, sometimes they'll just, you can just hear it in their voice, but that's, you know, really where we as coaches find them perhaps the most rewarding when we're really able to find those breakthrough moments, 

Iveliz: Kendrea, so if someone were interested in pursuing coaching, uh and they wanted to look for accredited coaches, obviously, they can start with you and John, however, is there a place or a directory anywhere that may be a place that people can go to find people that have accreditation? 

Kendrea: Sure. So one resource would be the ICF website, the International Coaching Federation. So there's that and I would also visit the individual websites of coaches, most, most coaches who are certified are not shy about stating that on their website. And if you find a coach's website and it doesn't specify whether they're certified or not have the agency and feel free to ask that specific question. And then you can weigh that accordingly in your decision making. So I would start with the ICF website. IPC has a great website as well. CTA which is where I was certified Coach Training Alliance also has a great website and then just individual websites of coaches and pay close attention to the language they use to describe their training and their qualifications. And just so the audience knows, I'd love it if you two could share your websites as well. 

John: Sure, first, you could just Google John Iino coach, but the website is cumbrealtaadvisors.com. So that might be a mouthful to just begin Google John Iino coach. 

Kendrea: My website is called the pivotinglawyer.com. I don't know if I'm as popular in Google Analytics as John's. I don't know if you just put my name in and coach, what will, what will happen, but it's the pivotinglawyer.com in any case. 

Iveliz: Well, thank you both and, and thank you so much for sharing, you know, your experiences today and for educating us on, you know exactly what coaching is and who might benefit from coaching. So thank you so much, John and Kendrea. It's always a pleasure. 

Kendrea: Thank you, Iveliz. 

John: Absolutely. It's fun being on the other side. 

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, PodBean, and reedsmith.com. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. 

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